We Have Reached a Point Where Performance Brands are Mid-Trims *Rough Draft*

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind) 05/18/2016 at 06:45 • Filed to: Sedans

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Initially I wanted to point out this new class of 500hp, $70k compact luxury super sedans that are becoming standard in the market. Then I realized we have another class of sports sedans emerging with nearly 400hp for $50k. I added in the segment and ended up discovering that we have a market shift occurring for a 250hp luxury sedan at $40k being the BASE MODEL!! So now I have to define every level of each sedan...

But I still wanted you all to see the changes, so check it out! The end goal will show why BMW needs something above M, why AMG is spreading like the crabs at a sea food restaurant ran by a fraternity, and how much the Germans have moved the market. So expect more to come and just take this as a pre-wobbling from yours truly.

*Second Draft: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .*

340i Sedan : $45,800.
3,555 lbs.
20/30 mpg.
320 hp @ 5,200 rpm.
330 lb-ft @ 1,380 rpm.

Missing something with around 370hp for around $54k. M-Sport power bump?

M3 Sedan : $63,500.
3,540 lbs.
17/26 mpg.
3.0T I6
425 hp @ 5,500 rpm.
406 lb-ft. @ 1,850 rpm.

Room for M3 CS Sedan: $75,000. Would love to see a CS-L with over 476hp.

C300 Sedan : $38,390.
3,417 lbs.
25/34 mpg.
2.0T I4.
241 hp @ 5,500 rpm.
273 lb-ft @ 1,300-4,000 rpm.

C450 AMG Sedan : $50,800.
3,748 lbs.
21/29 mpg.
3.0T V6.
362 hp @ 5,500-6,000 rpm.
384 lb-ft @ 2,000-4,200 rpm.

AMG C63 Sedan : $65,250.
3,924 lbs.
18/25 mpg.
4.0T V8.
469 hp @ 5,500-6,250 rpm.
479 lb-ft. @ 1,750-4,500 rpm.

AMG C63 S Sedan : $73,250.
3,935 lbs.
18/25 mpg.
4.0T V8.
503 hp @ 5,500-6,250 rpm.
516 lb-ft. @ 1,750-4,500 rpm.

A4 2.0T: $37,300.
3,483 lbs.
25/33 mpg.

S4: $49,200.
3,869 lbs.
17/26 mpg.
3.0T V6.
333 hp @ 5,500-6,500 rpm.
325 lb-ft @ 2,900-5,300 rpm.

I’m assuming an RS4 sedan will come with the 2017 generation of A4. Something around 450hp for $60k.

RS4 Performance Plus or something like that will probably pop up with just over 500hp for $72k.

ATS Sedan 3.6 : $41,340 (Performance Collection - $45,155)
3,461 lbs.
20/30 mpg.
3.6L V6.
335 hp @ 6,800 rpm.
285 lb-ft @ 5,300 rpm.

ATS V-Sport: probably the 3.6T down rated to 400hp for $50k.

ATS-V Sedan : $60,465.
3,812 lbs.
17/23 mpg.
3.6T V6
464 hp @ 5850 rpm.
445 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm.

Room for ATS-VR Sedan: $72K. Please be a V8 with over 500hp! Even better if it’s the TTV8 Cadillac is working on.

Something making 300hp for $40k.

Some V6 making over 350hp for $50k.

Room for Giulia QV-Sport: over $60,000. Perhaps a 430hp version of the 3.0T?

Giulia Quadrifoglio Verde: over $70,000.
3,600 lbs.
3.0T V6.
505 hp (up from original 503 hp).
443 lb-ft @ 2,500-5,500 rpm (down from original 473 lb-ft).

XE 3.5T: $41,700.
3,605 lbs.
3.0T V6.
340 hp @ 6,500 rpm.
332 lb-ft @ 3,500 rpm.

XE S: Supercharged 3.0L V6 making at least 380 hp for around $55,000

XE R: around $63k. at just over 3,600 lbs. rumors are a 5.0T V8 making 488 hp and 461 lb-ft.

XE SVR: around $79k with the same v8 set to the usual 510hp (I doubt 550 would happen in a sedan this small and regulated).

(This is all Lexus has, but I needed to include them. They aren’t even at the current minimum for a performance sedan when looking at the 340i and everything else around it).

*IS350: $40,870. 3,593 lbs. 19/28 mpg. 3.5L V6. 306 hp @ 6,400 rpm. 277 lb-ft @ 4,800 rpm.*

IS300T: Some new turbo V6 making just under 400hp for just under $50k. (This is when Lexus would enter this group that I’m posting now).

IS F: Could use the RC F’s 5.0L and be 467hp sedan for around $60,000.

Lexus won’t make anything above this, so why even speculate...*sigh*

Q50 3.0T: $39,900.
3,707 lbs.
19/28 mpg.
3.0T V6.
300 hp @ 6,400 rpm.
295 lb-ft @ 1,600-5,200 rpm.

Q50 3.0T Red Sport: $47,900.
3,675 lbs.
20/26 mpg.
3.0T V6.
400 hp @ 6,400 rpm.
350 lb-ft @ 1,600-5,200 rpm.

IPL: probably the same 3.0T moved close to 450 hp for around $60k.

Nothing ever coming above that...

G70 3.3T: Possibly a 3.3T V6 making 364 hp and 292 lb-ft for over $40k.

G70 N: Either the 3.3T or the 5.0L V8 at around 420hp for over $50k.

Yeah, nothing in the $60k range.

No way some $70k super sedan is coming out within the next decade!

What I want everyone to notice is that automakers are having the press review these “M3 fighters” in trims that are above the M3! The Giulia QV is a performance segment above the M3. Same with the AMG C63 S (when was the last time you saw a C63 review?) So the M3 is still a kick as performance sedan and now the value is better because the M3 is actually punching above its weight class! I’m not a BMW guy, but I think we need to shift our perceptions. Rather than compete with the M3 everyone said f*ck it and started their own 500hp, $70k sedan segment with black jacks and Hoosiers!

That's gonna leave a mark! > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 06:55

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All I see are additional great choices. I need to add on more garage space.

Wobbles the Mind > That's gonna leave a mark! 05/18/2016 at 06:57

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Yeah this segment is hot as hell! While we are talking about SUVs killing the sedan, we have sedans killing the sportscar! So much sex here!

LongbowMkII > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 07:00

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TIL that performance often costs about 400lbs.

Pass.

Wobbles the Mind > LongbowMkII 05/18/2016 at 07:15

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See what I mean! It’s actually the $40k-$50k cars (which are the base and ONE trim above) that are the enthusiast models, everything else is just batshit insane stuff for the richies. Muscle cars with supercar tires and carbon ceramic brakes so that people don’t know they are muscle cars.

Honeybunchesofgoats > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 07:57

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It’s really amazing how power has exploded in less than a decade. We’re at the point where anything with a 0-60 of over 6 seconds seems slow.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 08:04

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While nobody considers this as luxury, it definitely qualifies as a super sedan. 485hp for $42k MSRP. Just don’t go trying to pitch it into a corner like a Corvette.

LongbowMkII > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 08:17

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The world demands a RWD 3 liter 3000lb 300hp coupe/sedan for $30,000.

And by the world I mean me. And by $30,000 I mean $3,000.

Wobbles the Mind > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 05/18/2016 at 08:26

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When it comes to luxury, performance, features, and value there is no better sedan on the market! The Hellcat doesnt even offer the same features. Phenomenal car!

Reece-Current Stinger GT owner > LongbowMkII 05/18/2016 at 09:02

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1.Move budget to 15k.

2.Buy E46 M3

3.????

4.Profit!

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 09:22

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Performance really has gotten cheaper, hasn’t it? 20 years ago $40k bought you something with 200-250hp. Nowadays only the cheapest of the cheap cars have less than 200hp.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > LongbowMkII 05/18/2016 at 09:24

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Genesis Coupe?

LongbowMkII > Reece-Current Stinger GT owner 05/18/2016 at 09:43

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5. Spend profits repairing and reinforcing E46.

MountainRoadPhysicist > Honeybunchesofgoats 05/18/2016 at 10:17

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I used to tell myself that owning a fun car that does roughly 6 seconds to 60 was always a good acceleration time. So I fantasized about owning a sports car or hot hatch that could accomplish that 0 to 60 time. Now I am in the prcoess of getting a car that will do it in the low 4 second mark and I will tune it to be faster because 4 seconds seems slow.

Reece-Current Stinger GT owner > LongbowMkII 05/18/2016 at 10:35

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Shhh if it starts making weird nosies just buy a louder exhaust to offset it.

d15b > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 11:01

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What’s the difference here in the placement of “AMG”?

C450 AMG Sedan vs. . AMG C63 Sedan

Wobbles the Mind > d15b 05/18/2016 at 11:06

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It was Mercedes’ way of separating AMG models from AMG tuned models. Like M235i vs. M2. But now the C450 AMG will become the AMG C43 because it has all the AMG components except the engine because there aren’t any AMG V6 engines currently, and likely won’t ever be since Mercedes (and Jaguar) may be switching to inline six engines to save money, balance, performance, and front end design proportions.

d15b > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 11:07

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Wow. Okay, I had no idea. Thanks!

Saracen > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 13:48

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Couple of things.

- The B7 RS4 started at $66k, and only had a couple of options. The B8 RS5 started life at $69k and by the end of its lifecycle grew to $72k. I wouldn’t expect the next RS4 to start at any less than $70k.

- The Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti is the only model below the QF. It’ll be powered by a 2 liter, 276hp turbo four. It should start at no more than $40k.

Sigh, this list is depressingly small when cut down to cars that have proper manual gearboxes:

Wobbles the Mind > Saracen 05/18/2016 at 14:06

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I dont anything about the RS Audi sedans, especially when accounting for the AWD.

The Giulia Ti sounds like the 300hp-$40k model I was looking for. That would be a US base trim though. So there are two engines and two models missing between the Ti and the QV.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 21:47

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For all the hate that BMW gets from us, I would like to point out that only they and Infiniti remove weight on their performance models.

Bravo guys, maybe BMW does have the right ideas still.

Wobbles, would you mind making one of your informative posts that compare the hp, weight and the ratio of the middle ground offerings of this class (a la 328i, A4, C300, IS200t, etc)? I bet the lightest and the best hp/weight ratio winners would be surprising.

Wobbles the Mind > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 05/18/2016 at 21:56

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Yeah, that’s the next level to this one. At first it was to check out that top end bit I started noticing the middle and bottom levels had plenty going on too. Coming up over the weekend probably!

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Wobbles the Mind 05/18/2016 at 21:57

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Woo! Your posts are always top notch, keep up the great content!

Wobbles the Mind > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 05/28/2016 at 20:16

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Got it done for ya (and myself)! Levels of Performance: Premium Compact Segment .